baconmeteor ([info]baconmeteor) wrote,
@ 2006-10-24 02:36:00
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чур меня, чур!
Ожегов gives this definition of чур:

межд. (разг.). 1. Возглас (обычно в детских играх), к-рым запрещают касаться чего-н., переходить за какой-н. предел [первонач. в заклинаниях, где слово "чур" обозначает границу, межу]. Ч. меня! Т.. Возглас, к-рым требуют соолюдать какое-н. условие. Ч. я первый! Только ч. я остаюсь! Ч. это секрет!

Even so, I'm still not sure I understand what an English equivalent would be for the old man's cry "чур меня, чур!" in chapter 8.

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[info]tyrex
2006-10-23 06:46 pm UTC (link)
the meaning of "чур меня, чур" is very close to "сгинь, нечистая сила". maybe this will help.

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[info]dil
2006-10-23 07:29 pm UTC (link)
+1
Originally "чур" или "щур" means "пращур" - далекий предок. This is an appeal to spirits of ancestors who must either confirm somebody's words or priority (forst meaning) or guard from evil spirits.

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[info]shadowtramp
2006-10-23 07:42 pm UTC (link)
+1
but interpretation given is rather archaic
more modern or suitable in common talk is like "God forbid!" or "goodness, no!"

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[info]ppl
2006-10-23 06:50 pm UTC (link)
In "чур меня, чур" it's a bit different word. Probably from "чураться" - keep way, stay away. "Чур меня чур" usually means "[нечистая сила,] stay away from me".

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[info]oryx_and_crake
2006-10-23 11:30 pm UTC (link)
It is exactly the other way round - чураться means to shy away, to exclaim "чур, чур!"

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[info]ppl
2006-10-23 11:46 pm UTC (link)
Not really. "Shy away" - yes, but it's not all that different from "stay away". But "exclaim ..." - no. Check Google for "чурается".

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[info]oryx_and_crake
2006-10-23 11:51 pm UTC (link)
Why "not really"? I think it is very clear. (And I don't have to check Google because I know the meaning of this word.) If I am afraid of something, or dislike something, I want to stay away from that (this is exactly what "чураться" means) and I exclaim "чур, чур!" when I see it - that's where the word чураться actually came from.

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[info]oryx_and_crake
2006-10-23 11:54 pm UTC (link)
P.S. If you don't believe me, check this dictionary. for example.
http://ozh.vslovar.org.ru/36899.html
It says clearly that the initial meaning of the word чураться was to exclaim "чур!" in order to protect oneself from smth.

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[info]ppl
2006-10-24 12:07 am UTC (link)
I don't see how this dictionary is better than Google, which, although imperfect, gives you (some idea of) the modern usage of a word. I would probably agree that the origin of "чураться" may be related to "чур", but you said something different - чураться means [...] to exclaim "чур, чур!". This is why I said "not really".

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[info]mama_ari
2006-10-23 07:03 pm UTC (link)
если есть слегка архаичное заклинание против полтергейста или против дьявола, можно использовать его; но можно и проще, что-то вроде "oh give me a break" - интонация вполне та же.

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[info]phd_paul_lector
2006-10-23 07:10 pm UTC (link)
Also, "чур" cjmes from "(пра)щур" - предок, and it once used to have the meaning of "o grandgrandgrands, save me!"

Nowadays this is an emphatic one - between "Oh Lord save my soul" and "oh let me alone"

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[info]oryx_and_crake
2006-10-23 11:54 pm UTC (link)
наоборот, см. я выше ссылку дала

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Любовная магия. Привороты.
(Anonymous)
2007-06-07 09:12 am UTC (link)
MESSAGE

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